Programming Stoned

[rouncer]

Can you get a game up and running stoned, cause thats what I do everyday, do you think it causes brain damage?
Making music when your stoned gives you a heightened sense of achievement, but when its over- your music just sounds like the same old dumb shit you usually pump out.

So, are drugs really worth it?

Or do they just make you feel good, and they arent good for iq work.

Programming is HEVY iq, but as we know ladies and gentleman games come out all the time, but some people think - only when they hire a separate man each map does the game get out.

Or, is it possible for one man to finish all the maps for one whole game, working like a novelist.

But I shouldnt stone out so much or ill never get the job done myself, anyone here have a cone up with a network up?

[Mattias Gustavsson]

do you think it causes brain damage?
it obviously does

[TheNut]

That's a funny question because in the early days every game developer was high. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the genres we take for granted today were invented on the other side. Nowadays though, drugs are considered taboo and rightly so. Drugs serve only to enhance or otherwise relax you, then it just means you lack the will or self-skill to do that freely of drugs. In the eyes of an employer, not only is it illegal activity, but it shows you're lazy and lack the capability of game development. And if you slip out of reality, you become as productive as a sloth.

Making games and music is really fun stuff, even if it is redundant. You got to keep yourself "high" on the end result. Spice things up, improve your skills, and keep determined. Nothing's better than getting free enhancement from willpower. If you can't do that, then perhaps this is the wrong field for you.

[Goz]

Christ if i smoked a bifta and then tried to code i'd just site staring at my screen dribbling for a coupla hours ...

Either that or i'd go lie in the park and do bugger all for that coupla hours ...

[alphadog]

So, are drugs really worth it?

Really depends on the drug and the amount of "usage"...

Mild drugs like marijuana in moderate use will relax you and *maybe* help creativity. No different than a beer or a glass of vino. I don't think it will have a non-negligible effect on creativity, even if many people delude themselves into thinking that it does. Excessive use will make you apathetic and useless, just like Goz says.

LSD will make you create some whacked out shit that nobody understands, even yourself once you come down. It'll be kinda funny, but non-productive.

PCP will make you see headcrabs on your coworker... at which point, you'll try to hit him with a sledgehammer. Not a good move, career-wise.

Personally, if you need a crutch to get through the day, maybe that kind of day isn't for you and you need something else?

[fireside]

Life is too short to waste it being high. I was high all the time in my younger years and I can hardly remember what I did. Mainly because I didn't do much.

[.oisyn]

Can you get a game up and running stoned, cause thats what I do everyday
That actually explains a lot :happy:

do you think it causes brain damage?
Definitely.

So, are drugs really worth it?
Well, the big question is: are you more productive and more likely to finish the job at hand. From personal experience I'd say no, although mild amfetamine usage could surely help being more productive (not too much otherwise you'll have troubles concentrating). And I think most programmers oblige caffeine ;)

[Hyper]

I agree with, TheNut.

PS: rouncer, You mis spelled HEAVY - you put "HEVY" ;) Drugs != Good for anything

[vrnunes]

You know, some time ago I was about to ask if you were on drugs, because you shown some paranoid behavior.

I am not judging you in any way, but I can tell you from my own experience, that in the end drugs distort reality in a bad way for you.

Although sometimes there is really a slight creativity boost, actually I think that it is far better to live without using any drugs at all.

EDIT: and yes, it causes brain damage.

[Wernaeh]

This


PCP will make you see headcrabs on your coworker... at which point, you'll try to hit him with a sledgehammer. Not a good move, career-wise.


will probably keep me chuckling for the entire day ;)

Cheers,
- Wernaeh

[rouncer]

There was a show on TV where i live in Western Australia about programming back in the 70's, some guy brought the code and the computers, and the other brought the marajuana.
Goes to show how smart some programmers are to be able to smoke dope and still write functioning code.

Also, depending on who your dealer is, sometimes you can get mugged on the way to the dealers house cause its in the bronx and its a lawless situation. :)

Alpha dog ->
For a while I was CONVINCED! the pot was the substance that opened me up, I learnt to draw whilst under the influence of marajuana but it seemed to only be temporary its beneficial effect on me. (Alpha Dog, you brought it up, it sometimes could have a beneficial effect.)
But it makes you lazy and slows you down after the initial hit it gives you just after you have the J.

Especially sketching, when I smoked a bit of dope I got the idea of doing delicate crosshatch work (It makes the best game concept sketches) and I had never done that before, The marajuana brought the page to life in front of my eyes.

You can trip out when you look at a picture, or trip out when you listen to a piece of music whilst under the influence of a drug and its an amazing experience.

I prefer to just do art when im smoking, I leave the programming till when im straight.

But is it all a mistake...
I wonder if I would have been smarter if I didnt waste all my formative years stoned instead of my brain developing properly. :) But you cant blame pot for your program crashing.

My musics at http://www.myspace.com/bluckus1 if you wanna check it out, ive got some of my art there too.

[Goz]

TBH, I don't regret my past drug usage. I have had a MASSIVE pot habit (About 2.5oz of high grade skunk a month) in the past. In fact it drove me insane but I found that stopping very quickly brought me out of that. These days I'll take a couple of lugs if offered one and then pass it on and I'm fine with that. Will only smoke at a party though anad not all the time as I once did (I never smoked at work though, just evenings and weekends which makes the quantity more impressive! ;)).

Beyond that I have a habit of experimentation. I have tried many psychedelics from LSD, MDMA and 5-MeO-DMT through research chemicals such as 2CB and DOB. I don't think for a second it helped my coding but it did help me to see myself in a totally different way and has made me a better person as a result.

Each to their own in the end. I'm not brain damaged. I never lost a job because of it. In fact im doing very well for myself, married and have 2 kids.

[Mihail121]

I'm definetely having troubles to concentrate with even moderate THC amount in the blood. And I'd say "stay off", even if it's plain MJ, 'cause you won't like to wake up the next day with a psychose or something as I did and it lasted for almost a week...

[Mihail121]

I have tried many psychedelics from LSD, MDMA and 5-MeO-DMT through research chemicals such as 2CB and DOB. I don't think for a second it helped my coding but it did help me to see myself in a totally different way and has made me a better person as a result.

OMG, not LSD man!!! You actually believe the things you see with LSD so I guess it will not help a great deal to code if you're seeing the floor going off in some sort of cosmic vortex... Jesus, no, no LSD...

[Sol_HSA]

I seriously didn't know there's so many drug addicts in these circles.

[Mattias Gustavsson]

explains a lot though...

[.oisyn]

OMG, not LSD man!!! You actually believe the things you see with LSD so I guess it will not help a great deal to code if you're seeing the floor going off in some sort of cosmic vortex... Jesus, no, no LSD...
I myself have experimented a lot as well. And I still do every once in a while, for recreational purposes. Nothing beats spacing out on a combination of X and N2O ;)
LSD is cool, but not for people with unstable personalities. In which category you fall I guess when you wake up with a psychose from THC. But it's something I wouldn't do anymore, just like shrooms. I'm getting too old for that.

[Reedbeta]

I seriously didn't know there's so many drug addicts in these circles.

Drug users. I don't think everyone who's piped up here could honestly be called an addict (though, some could). ;)

[Mattias Gustavsson]

same thing

[Reedbeta]

Are you really saying that everyone who uses drugs - even just occasionally - is an addict?

[Mattias Gustavsson]

of course. (unless it is for medical purposes, I guess) it's kind of obvious :wallbash: there's a reason they're illegal...

[Hyper]

of course. (unless it is for medical purposes, I guess) it's kind of obvious :wallbash: there's a reason they're illegal...

Thank you. When I say stuff like that, I catch alot of flak. Thanks for saying the obvious. :) <3

[Reedbeta]

of course. (unless it is for medical purposes, I guess) it's kind of obvious :wallbash: there's a reason they're illegal...

I'm sorry, that's just completely in a different reality. Now I don't claim that the drugs shouldn't be illegal, and I don't claim that they aren't dangerous. But using a drug does NOT make it inevitable that you develop a physical or psychological dependence such that you can't function without the drug (i.e. addiction). Claiming that all drug users are addicts is just as irresponsible as it would be to claim that all drugs are harmless.

[Mattias Gustavsson]

no. you're wrong

[Reedbeta]

Oh? So you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that EVERYONE who uses any illegal drug, even just once, becomes an addict?

No. You can't. Because it's not true.

You're completely entitled to the opinion that drugs are bad, evil, the world would be better without them, etc., but that you can make such a completely invalid FACTUAL claim about them is frightening, to say the least.

[Mattias Gustavsson]

You're completely entitled to the opinion that drugs are bad

Of courese I am. Because they are.

[.oisyn]

Get your facts straight. That's all I have to say about it. Your opinion about drugs is as bad, unfounded and short-sighted as your opinions about working in the gamesindustry :happy:

By the way, drug use in The Netherlands is not illegal. So by your definition, Dutch drug users are not addicts. And you're probably an alcoholic.

[Mattias Gustavsson]

A bunch of guys defending their recreational drug addiction. How sad...

[.oisyn]

I'm not defending anything :). I'm just saying you're quite ignorant. But that's ok, you're entitled to your ignorance :happy:

[Mattias Gustavsson]

If "ignorant" means drug free, I'll be happy with my ignorance :D

[.oisyn]

Actually, being happy releases dopamine into your bloodstream, a quite natural drug. So no, you're not drugfree :p

[vrnunes]

Mattias, you are a troglodit.

[starstutter]

as for all drugs being addictive, no, to me thats complete bull. Although there's 2 sides to this: physical and metal. Physicaly, there's no way you can make an argument that its true, mentally, I think you could make a pretty convincing argument that illegal drugs are highly mentally addictive.

PS: I am currently sitting across from a girl who is heavily addicted to second life, support the search for the cure =(
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|****Donate*****|
|________________|

[TheNut]

Just thought I'd post a link to Grandma's Boy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0456554/). A must watch, especially anyone following this thread ;)

[Reedbeta]

A bunch of guys defending their recreational drug addiction. How sad...

Personally, I don't use drugs at all, but I still don't like hearing people conflate use with addiction. I have friends who have used them and are absolutely not addicted and have never been addicted (and other friends who *have* been addicted, and no I do not wish to defend their addiction).

I think you could make a pretty convincing argument that illegal drugs are highly mentally addictive.

Absolutely; for instance, marijuana is supposed to not be physically addictive but it is still psychologically addictive, from what I've heard. Nevertheless, it's completely untrue that use inevitably leads to addiction.

[Goz]

Its worth noting that many pain killers people take every day (Ibuprofen or paracetemol) for example have a much higher LD-50 dose (Lethal Dose for 50% of users) than either MDMA or LSD (LSD has no known LD-50). In fact I've found many prescription drugs to be far more insidious than mostof the illegal substance. When I broke my ankle I was given Cocodamol. The stuff is vicious. When i had my operation I was given tamazepam. That stuff was truly horrible. Flucloxacilin messed me up (Mentally) big style.

I won't even get into the anti-depressants that doctors give out like sweeties. My little sister stopped taking prozac and decided to live with her SEVERE depression because the most common side effect of the drug is ... depression (Now thats a genius drug choice).

I'm not saying what i've taken is good. DOB is a particularly dangerous drug if not taken carefully. But I'm careful and learn about substances before i take one.

I've never tried Cocaine or Heroin and never intend to.

In fact the most insidious drugs I've taken (And, alas, still do) are alcohol and nicotine. Mattias ... do you drink or smoke? Because if you do then you are in a glass house and throwing stones.


I know this is not a very popular idea. You don't hear it too often any more...but it's the truth. I have taken drugs before and...I had a real good time. Sorry. Didn't murder anybody, didn't rape anybody, didn't rob anybody, didn't beat anybody, didn't lose — hmm — one fucking job, laughed my ass off, and went about my day. Sorry. Now, where's my commercial?

What was it that Bill Hicks died from? Oh yeah .. that nice LEGAL substance ... nicotine.

Each to their own. I won't suggest you go off and take drugs. Good on ya if you don't (and i MEAN that) but don't judge me when you don't have a clue (which you obviously don't). And don't forget .. don't touch the booze or ciggies!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6474053.stm

and if you want to subscribe to the lancet (One of the most influential medical journals on the planet)

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673607604644/fulltext

[.oisyn]

as for all drugs being addictive, no, to me thats complete bull. Although there's 2 sides to this: physical and metal. Physicaly, there's no way you can make an argument that its true, mentally, I think you could make a pretty convincing argument that illegal drugs are highly mentally addictive.
Mentally anything can be addictive. From playing games to simply mowing the lawn.

(LSD has no known LD-50).
That makes sense as it isn't possible to OD on LSD :). It saturates quite quickly, making the experience not more intense but just somewhat longer. Most LSD related deaths are from people doing stupid things, especially combined with alcohol. Those stupid tourists from England and France, with no experience with drug use whatsoever, are the reason that the selling of magic mushrooms became prohibited a few months ago here in The Netherlands. Reason? Combination with alcohol made them a few of them do stupid things like jumping out of windows. Resulting in pressure from the English and French governments and finally the Dutch government caved. Even though each and every one of those incidents involved stupid dumb tourists. Then again, I'm fine with it. It just banned the selling of shrooms to the streets, making it next to impossible for tourists to get a hold of the stuff without good connections. Problem solved ;).

Also, LSD and shrooms are not physically damaging. But one has to take care that it can lead to a real intense emotional experience ("going bad") which can change you as a person, like any intense emotional experience (such as a car crash). Therefore, if you want to try it, *only* do it if you're absolutely sure you're emotionally stable, and make sure you have experienced (preferably sober) friends alongside who can talk your bad trip into a good one.

[Goz]

Then again, I'm fine with it. It just banned the selling of shrooms to the streets, making it next to impossible for tourists to get a hold of the stuff without good connections. Problem solved ;).

Sweet ... will have to give you a shout next time im in holland :lol:

Edit: I haven't touched mushroom since before they were banned in the UK. That time me and some friends made a slight miscalculation and ended up doing 500g of mexican cubensis between 3 of us. The Result: I couldn't pick my head up off the floor for 4 hours as I was laughing too hard ;)

[alphadog]

A bunch of guys defending their recreational drug addiction. How sad...

he said, while sipping his beer... :)

(Note that addiction has nothing to do with legality of the substance thereof. Just look at alcohol use vs. alcoholism.)

As one opinionated guy to another, Matthias is entitled to be an opinionated person. I pretty much determined that from his build-vs-buy stnace that made no sense to me whatsoever. Strong opinion doesn't make him correct, though.

[alphadog]

Another thing to add: mj does not cause brain damage in moderate use. In fact, alcohol is much more potent.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20030701/heavy-marijuana-use-doesnt-damage-brain

(Enjoyed it socially in the past, but haven't used a drug recreationally in maybe fifteen years+. In fact, with two children, I haven't had recreation in any form in six... :) )

[rouncer]

.oisyn, you said you did n02?
Do you mean the stuff you inhale that makes your voice go deeper while your under the effect?
That stuff is hard core, lasts for about 20 seconds but its an extreme effect.
I was smoking dope one night and doing nangs (its what we call em here) and I nearly passed out and suffered a painful explosion in my head.

I think I died that night. The only drug id never do again, is nangs.

I was quite merrily smoking away last night and making hardcore tho...

[Goz]

I was quite merrily smoking away last night and making hardcore tho...

Hardcore? Pah .. its all about the psytrance! ;)

Bush Doof FTW! :D

[.oisyn]

.oisyn, you said you did n02?
Do you mean the stuff you inhale that makes your voice go deeper while your under the effect?
Yup. Or simply "laughing gas" :)

That stuff is hard core, lasts for about 20 seconds but its an extreme effect.
I was smoking dope one night and doing nangs (its what we call em here) and I nearly passed out and suffered a painful explosion in my head.
Well yeah, you have to be careful. They use it to put people under narcose in the hospital and at the dentist's. It effectively replaces the oxygen molecules in your brain. If you do it too long, you'll pass out. But other than things like falling injuries from passing out (just sit down before using it ;)) it's pretty harmless.

You can usually buy the stuff legally as well, as it is also used in pressure cartridges for those whipped cream canisters (http://z.about.com/d/easteuropeanfood/1/0/O/0/-/-/whipper.jpg).

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41A9XSR7P9L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

[Kenneth Gorking]

I'm learning new stuff every day in here :lol:

Let's all get together and play a boardgame (http://www.overcompensating.com/posts/20090326.html)!

Now I'm off to the supermarket (cheers .oisyn) :wacko:

[TheNut]

If you want hardcore, do salvia divinorum.

[roel]

If you want hardcore, do salvia divinorum.
I tried that, with an psychonaut friend, who recommended it to me. It failed for me. He had a lot of fun.

Btw, it was the first and last drug I tried. Except for alcohol of course. Did you ever drink alcohol, Mattias?

[Goz]

If you want hardcore, do salvia divinorum.

A hit fo 5-MeO-DMT is just as reality changing but far nicer overall. I've tried salvia .. it was an "interesting" experience .. but not something i'll try again.

[Mihail121]

A bunch of guys defending their recreational drug addiction. How sad...

I used to be as ignorant as you are, then I tried, and changed my views on the matter. Addiction is basically everything you like doing so you're an addict too. Most people just use the word without even knowing what it means. Besides, drugs are a great way to see yourself from different angles. As everything nice, they are dangerous, yes, but we just happen to know that, even without your ignorance. Why are they illegal? Come and tell me... And please stop defending a position you've taken over from the local newspaper, things are not so simple. I used to have a relative always shouting against things he didn't know -- nobody liked him. Stay neutral until you have some experience please.

[Hyper]

To everybody: The conclusion is that drugs and programming are a bad mix, agreed?

To .oisyn: You're pro-drug use. You believe that drugs are not "addicting," that's fine. Here (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Addict)'s what the word ("addict") means. In America, being addicted something has nothing to do with drug-usage. Nouns can be addicting physically and mentally. "OCD" makes you "addicted" ("obsessed," "infatuated") with anything. But that has nothing to do with the topic at hand, or drugs in general. Again, in America, that's what the word means. In the Netherlands, I wouldn't know, nor care, because I live in the USA. Where idiots and fags roam free spreading disease drug free! Oh also, you do have drugs running through your system, but those are there by "nature's hand" not external "non-natural" methods (eg: shooting up). One more thing: Nobody here's ignorant; In your words that is. If "we" in general are "ignorant," then you sir, are quite ignorant about who I am. Therefore you are ignorant by "definition" as are we all (generally speaking). Don't play word games with or around me, you won't win. I do it for a living.

To Goz: Pain-killers are quite addicting. If you don't believe me, talk to my mother who says they quote, "aren't addicting." Talk to your Doctor. Research what "phantom pain" is even. Drugs (like games) are by fact (or "can be") addicting. If you read the warning label on the game of Diablo II it specifically states, quote, "DO NOT PLAY OVER 2 HOURS AT A TIME, IT MAY CAUSE ADDICTION." It is a very serious warning label, not a joke. People commit suicide to play addictive games, as a young girl I used to skip out on eating food all day and even wet myelf just so I wouldn't have to quit playing a game ("computer" in general). Games like One Must Fall 2097, Dig-Dug, Sim Ant, and a few others I refused to leave even for a moment. I was in no way on any drugs taken orally, by injection, or otherwise "non-naturally occuring" (via the body). Also, when you say numbers like that, you forgot to put the words "statistically speaking," because that changes the meaning behind it hugely. If "One in four women" have breast cancer, it does not mean that if I and three other women live in a house, one of us has cancer. It just means quote "Statistically speaking, 1 in 4 women have breast cancer." Men have breast cancer too and die from it. 1 in 1,000 men every year do statistically speaking. (90% of statistics are made up on the spot anyways)

To Reedbeta: You're right. Drugs can be mentally and/or physically addictive to specific people. It all depends on who you are, and what you've done. I completely agree, there's no law stating: If you do drugs, you will be addicted. It's just a majority of people (apparently) become addicted, so people assume you WILL be at some point (if you continue extensively).

To starstutter: </donate> :( A man cheated on his wife on "Second-life..." That's just heart-breaking that somebody would cheat on their newly-wed wife.

To vrnunes: What is a, "troglodit?"

To Mihail121: If you're going to read a single post and reply only to it, care to read all posts first? Sometimes people take back what they say, or explain what they'd meant. Another thing, I've heard that line before, "I used to be as ignorant as you are..." Sure. My Uncle says "I'm not addicted, I can quit when-ever I want." That's why he hasn't quit, almost lost his only job (that he illegally has due to a minor spelling error of his name), and continually increases the amount he's smoking monthly. If I'm not mistaken, he was at one point smoking approx. $300 worth a month (we live in the South (Texas), so you (as a drug user) can figure out how many lbs. that is). Maybe your "relative" is right. Perhaps you assume he's ignorant, yet you're the one who's ignorant.

[rouncer]

Thats a mighty fine rant, Hyper, your teaching everyone a lesson.
By the way, i dont think n02 is harmless and I dont think they give "whip it" pressured canisters people at hospitals or they would be killing everyone they administered anasthetic to.

If you go to any music gathering on the net, youll see theres a percentage of the musicians who do like to smoke before they create, I was just thinking its probably less of a phenomenon in programming.

Why? Maybe because programming is a different thing to do, maybe believing in less superstition and a plain matter of factual skeptical mind is whats required whilst your doing it is a better option.

But art is all about your senses, so maybe you could see a bit of drug use slip in there.

[Mihail121]

...

Finally a well argumented post, I agree with everything said including the comments on myself. As with everything else, the matter is relevant on the view point. I don't like seing children on drugs so I too will say "drugs are bad". The unspoken truth is that the post was about "Can we manage to develop while on drugs", instead it went the path of "Drugs vs. No Drugs".

[flux00]

lol

Note the manner in which the relevance of the arguments to the original topic strays ever increasingly further toward zero (or more formally, hitler).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[rouncer]

It gives you super human abilities.

[.oisyn]

To .oisyn: You're pro-drug use.
No, I'm not. But I'm not anti either. Everybody should decide for themselves, and I will never say that drug use is a good thing. And I'd like to stress out that drug abuse is never a good thing.

You believe that drugs are not "addicting," that's fine.
It's very weird you draw that conclusion, because I have never said such a thing, so perhaps you are psychic? But I don't actually believe it's true either, so your psychic powers must be off then. The only thing I've said in this thread, as have others, is that drug use is not the same as a drug addiction. And I think people thinking it is are quite ignorant, especially when they're going around saying things like "you're wrong" without giving any arguments (which seems typical behaviour for the person I was talking to, which wasn't YOU so I wasn't calling YOU ignorant either - if you think it does apply to you then that's your own wrongdoing).

Actually, this very sentence applies to you as well:
If you're going to read a single post and reply only to it, care to read all posts first? Sometimes people take back what they say, or explain what they'd meant.
To which I would like to add: if you read a post, read only what is said, and do not try to read between the lines or assume what people actually mean. And, if you do think that person means something else, simply ask.

Don't play word games with or around me, you won't win. I do it for a living.
I won't win for the sole fact that English is not my first language. So whether you do it for a living is completely irrelevant ;)

To vrnunes: What is a, "troglodit?"
I think he misspelled (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/troglodyte) it

[Sol_HSA]

Well, if nothing else, this thread has changed the way I see some people on this board. And, unfortunately, the board in general.

I have no personal experience of drugs - or alcohol, for that matter - but I've seen plenty of negative side effects of both. From what I've read, the world might be a better place without alcohol but with legal MJ, but that doesn't mean I'd be interested of trying either.

[.oisyn]

but I've seen plenty of negative side effects of both.
Very true. Substance abuse is not something to be reconed with.

but that doesn't mean I'd be interested of trying either
Good for you (and I mean that) :)

[Goz]

Very true. Substance abuse is not something to be reconed with.


Good for you (and I mean that) :)

+1 on both points! :)

There are many things I regret doing in the past .. categorically the worst mistake i ever made was smoking nicotine. Second was joining the games industry .. but thats a rant for another day ;)

[Hyper]

To .oisyn:

Get your facts straight. That's all I have to say about it. Your opinion about drugs is as bad, unfounded and short-sighted as your opinions about working in the gamesindustry :happy:

By the way, drug use in The Netherlands is not illegal. So by your definition, Dutch drug users are not addicts. And you're probably an alcoholic.

To insinuate is to say, to mean. You've done just that. I'm not reading inbetween the lines, I'm infact reading what you said. To twirl what you twisted back on you: Please read all the posts instead of trying to read inbetween the lines. ;) Speaking of which, you'd said this prior (just a reminder):

Well, the big question is: are you more productive and more likely to finish the job at hand. From personal experience I'd say no, although mild amfetamine usage could surely help being more productive (not too much otherwise you'll have troubles concentrating). And I think most programmers oblige caffeine ;)

You're obviously pro-drug use (if you ignore what I'm insinuating, then caffeine points it out quite clearly). You cannot claim to be neutral yet say you're "for 'partial'" drug-use, then turn around and say you're against it (again, "partial").

I don't care if English was or was not your first language, nobody had asked you that. That entire statement was irrelevant and "off-topic" for the matter of the topic at hand. The OP (original poster) rouncer, was asking a simple question, at some point, the entire topic got derailed.

Yes, he did mis spell that word. I call them "Troggles" due to Math Munchers calling them that.

To Mihail121: Thank you for agreeing, and thank you for the compliment.

[.oisyn]

To insinuate is to say, to mean. You've done just that. I'm not reading inbetween the lines
Then emphasise that sentence before it as well, which reads "by your definition". I have never said that that was my definition as well. I was merely trying to point out that his definition was flawed. Of course there are Dutch drug users which are addicts.

You're obviously pro-drug use (if you ignore what I'm insinuating, then caffeine points it out quite clearly). You cannot claim to be neutral yet say you're "for 'partial'" drug-use, then turn around and say you're against it (again, "partial").
No, I have never said I was for the use of amphetamines to help you program better. I merely said it *could* help. I did not say it was a good thing to do. Again, you're reading between the lines.

I don't care if English was or was not your first language, nobody had asked you that. That entire statement was irrelevant and "off-topic" for the matter of the topic at hand. The OP (original poster) rouncer, was asking a simple question, at some point, the entire topic got derailed.
Yes, what's your point exactly? If I choose to call someone ignorant, I do so. I have my reasons for it, and you don't know what those reasons are (as they aren't all expressed in this topic), so you can't say my reasons are incorrect (even when they are - because you don't know them). I was specifically addressing Mattias at that point. Of course you're in your right to call it offtopic (which you didn't up until now), which it is, but quite frankly I don't care about that. A topic almost never ends with the same subject as it started with.

To be honest, we're playing word games right now, for the sole reason that you're (perhaps deliberately) misinterpreting what I'm saying. Even though what I'm saying isn't even close to being ambiguous in my opinion. Obviously, my opinion on this is biased, so perhaps someone else (other than Hyper) can confirm or deny whether my statements were so ambiguous?
No, scratch that. What I have said is unimportant, whether I said it correctly or not. What I think is. So for the record: I'm not for drug use, nor am I anti drug use. I do not think all drug users are addicts, nor do I think that drugs are never addictive. So there, that is my opinion. We could waste another 100 posts on what I have said and how I it can be interpreted, but I don't care about that so I will waste no time on that anymore.

[Hyper]

Thank you for being straight-forward on your opinions towards drug-usage and programming. All I wanted to hear. :)

EDIT: I'm not trying to incite an argument with you, .oisyn, I've no personal issues with you, and I don't mean to intrude.
I simply saw you say alot of stuff and I thought it was rather rude, which isn't cool by my standards at all; Then again, I don't really know anybody here, so, I suppose I shouldn't be "Taking sides," which I wasn't if that's what you were thinking. I attempt to stay neutral.

[vrnunes]

Guys, one thing we all should agree: drugs ARE bad.

The only thing I myself do not agree, and I think it is the cause of people turning the topic into a joke, is with labeling people because of that.

The same way, I think alcohol IS as bad as, lets say, marijuana, but I don't agree with labeling anyone who still drinks.

[roel]

The same way, I think alcohol IS as bad as, lets say, marijuana, but I don't agree with labeling anyone who still drinks.
I believe that alcohol is actually worse than marijuana, in the sense of implications for your health (and the health of others). The difference is that most people consider drinking alcohol as normal, it is fully accepted, and most people do not even think of alcohol as a drug like marijuana.

[kusma]

But other than things like falling injuries from passing out (just sit down before using it ;)) it's pretty harmless.
It's not as harmless as you think; a friend of mine died from that shit.

Edit: Sorry, no. I'm messing up. He died from inhaling Lighter Gas, not Laughter Gas...

[genetransfer]

drugs are just a tool to sell cool to rebelous youths so maybe they will buy albums and believe the myth that celebrity is actually more than human and too anyone thinking they have an original take on life.

I messed with Mj when i was 15/16 and started experiencing bazaar stuff like seeing things before they would actually happen, then on my 17th after a J it triggered a thing called anxiety(fight or flight on steroids) which ruined the next 10 years of my life. it is not harmless. I havn't touched anything scince i was 17 except for a alchohol which luckily for me doesn't make depressed but actually fully happy though I only drink once every couple of weeks.

But I cannot code unless sober and drugs didn't do anything to enhance only strip away, to reveal a clone with clone ideas. nothing comes from it no matter how hard hollywood promotes legends who messed with it. But who hasn't messed with it, the only people who can't tell thier drug tail are the ones who are dead or slaves to addiction. theres nothing glamourous or mystic about it man, it's just deception.

I just felt like sharing some things from my life so take it for what it is. the only thing that help me heal was God and Hard Work:) I'm an extreme example but seriously anyone who's actually done drugs know afterward they were just legends in thier own mind...

[alphadog]

I messed with Mj when i was 15/16 and started experiencing bazaar stuff like seeing things before they would actually happen, then on my 17th after a J it triggered a thing called anxiety(fight or flight on steroids) which ruined the next 10 years of my life. it is not harmless.

MJ was/is often laced with other, more aggressive "components". Unadulterated MJ is very benign, more than alcohol.

Mind you, there's a distinct difference between alcohol users (even psychological abusers) and true alcoholics. The latter group seem to suffer from some "extra" effects from drinking hootch relative to normal. For example, they seem to convert alcohol slower, leading to greater potential for the higher effects of alcohol, like hallucinations. The same exists with caffeine. It is conceivable, although I don't know if it's ever been studied, that some people would have higher sensitivity to THC than others.

[.oisyn]

and I dont think they give "whip it" pressured canisters people at hospitals or they would be killing everyone they administered anasthetic to.
Of course they don't give the canisters, but they do give their contents, nitrous oxide, N2O or laughing gas or whatever you want to call it.
Read for yourself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N2o):
It is used in surgery and dentistry for its anesthetic and analgesic effects. It is known as "laughing gas" due to the euphoric effects of inhaling it, a property that has led to its recreational use as an inhalant drug.
And further down:
The gas is approved for use as a food additive (also known as E942), specifically as an aerosol spray propellant. Its most common uses in this context are in aerosol whipped cream canisters, cooking sprays, and as an inert gas used to displace bacteria-inducing oxygen when filling packages of potato chips and other similar snack foods.
And
Nitrous oxide (N2O) is a dissociative drug that can cause analgesia, depersonalization, derealization, dizziness, euphoria, and some sound distortion . [8]
Since the earliest uses of nitrous oxide for medical or dental purposes, it has also been used recreationally as an inhalant, because it causes euphoria and slight hallucinations. Only a small number of recreational users (such as dental office workers or medical gas technicians) have legal access to pure nitrous oxide canisters that are intended for medical or dental use. Most recreational users obtain nitrous oxide from compressed gas containers which use nitrous oxide as a propellant for whipped cream or from automotive nitrous systems
So there ;)

It's not as harmless as you think; a friend of mine died from that shit.

Edit: Sorry, no. I'm messing up. He died from inhaling Lighter Gas, not Laughter Gas...
Well that's a world of difference ;). No disrespect to your friend by the way, I'm sorry to hear that.

[Hyper]

To roel:

I believe that alcohol is actually worse than marijuana, in the sense of implications for your health (and the health of others). The difference is that most people consider drinking alcohol as normal, it is fully accepted, and most people do not even think of alcohol as a drug like marijuana.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that people think of alcoholic beverages as different than mary-jane. Alcohol and mary-jane are both drugs. They both have bad side-effects on people, granted, some people are more tolerant to the drug (either) than others.

To genetransfer: Celeberitys are only human, as are military personnel and civilians. What religion do you believe in (curious)? I know quite alot about religion, I grew up studying the Christian perspective since I was 5 or so. I've read through the entire bible more than once (Nazarene - Church of Nazareth).

What you refered to as "Anxiety," can also be refered to as an adrenaline (http://www.kidpowervancouver.org/id40.html) rush; That's a "Fight or flight" response from "nature." Your body is filled with a specific drug (sort of like the effects of caffeine but alot stronger) which makes you much more alert, and "stronger (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=37888)." Ever hear a story about how a woman could lift a car off her child?

I've never personally attempted to use or "try" mary-jane or any other drug; The only "perscribed" or "over-the-counter" drugs I've ever taken in my entire life, was hydrocodone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocodone) (has no affect on me regardless of the quantity I take (the most I took at a time was 4 table spoons)), novocaine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procaine) (it hardly affects me - Dentists office pumped me full of it once), and Nitrous oxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide) ("Laughing gas" to knock me out for surgery).

To alphadog: Yes, M.J. is often laced with other drugs to make it more potent or addicting. As I'd said earlier: Peoples bodies are all different, we all absorb certain drugs at a different rate and react to different drugs (THC) differently. In my case, I can drink four full beers one right after the other, without having much effect (I feel a little light-headed, nothing more). I don't drink often - say a few times a year - I weigh approx. 120, so I'm a light weight. When I drink, I sometimes have food in my stomach and sometimes I don't, it's never really made a difference. I've never in my life experienced a hallucination, that I know of (while on drugs), although there was one time I think I did, I might've been asleep with my eyes opened though, I'm unsure.

To kusma: I'm very sorry for your friend. Also, I mean this in a completely non-offensive manner: He was an idiot for using drugs that are illegal for a reason, and if anybody has to say something about alcohol, they did try to ban it once. It didn't work too well. They're trying to ban cigarettes now too. Little by little, and guns (which I think is retarded but that again, is completely off topic).

To vrnunes: I do agree drugs are bad if mis-used and/or abused. They have their place and your personal home may or may not be the proper place (and time) for using them.

To all:
I personally believe that you should not take drugs with or without a Doctor telling you to (I think you should heed your Doctors advice with your own logic and research - because even Doctors make mistakes). I also believe you should not attempt to program while stoned. I believe it does not give you some "creativity" from thin air.

[genetransfer]

@Hyper, Hi, I was just trying to put accross how easily influeced youth are by people they look up to, and want to be like. probably could have said it better but I was just in that frame of mood last night:) As for religion, Christianity, when everything went wrong for me jesus was there to help me.The fight or flight machanic is definently a force to be recond with. It's was so strange until my 17th I was a care free easygoing fun loveing person, but all that changed that night at least for a little more than the next decade :). It was very hard because I didn't find out what was happening to me for the next few years so it was very traumatic thinking you were dying all the time. and no doctor ever even mention that to me. so I didn't know about muscle relaxing techniques or breathing techniques etc... anyway enough about me. cya.

[starstutter]

Hi guys, I'd like to just spit once into this big bucket.

You remember that forum rule that says

political, religious, and similar topics are not allowed.

I vote we link to this thread and say, "Here's what NOT to do" :)

[Grumpy]

Interesting reply... but sorry, if a person takes a drug he/ she is not automatically addicted. Coding and art creation are not the same thing (though most of us will tell you coding IS art) and are formed on the seperate sides of the brain. Most drugs induce the artsy side of the brain while depleating the math side. You show examples of your art, but none of your code so I will assume your pot smoking code blows reefers.

[Hyper]

starstutter, I was reading that earlier. This is by all means not religious, political, or similar in any way shape or form.
It is a simple question of whether or not programming while intoxicated makes you "Creative."

Forum Rules (http://www.devmaster.net/forums/announcement.php?f=24&a=2)

[alphadog]

I thought the Lounge was precisely for kicking back and wasting ASCII characters?!?

[jirka]

Personally. I program stoned all the time. I actually searched google to see if there are others like me.
I've been a Senior Level Architect or better since college.
No, it doesn't affect your programming skills; in fact, I write my best code while high. Just don't over-do it. Moderation is key.

Now, programming drunk.. that's impossible. That scene in Swordfish is a f*&^ing joke.

[Vilem Otte]

I personally believe that you should not take drugs with or without a Doctor telling you to
You're right ... anyway it is clear that it has be defined what (illegal) drug is? I think that we should let law to define it (and it defines it!) and we should respect it.
F.e. In czech rep. it's legal to smoke tobacco and to drink alcohol (e.g. they are legal "drugs") ... although marijuana situation is little complicated, the doctor can't reccomend it for you (well he can recommend, but you can't buy it anywhere legally - although you can hold "smaller than small amount of light drug", though even holding is not absolutely legal, it is on the other hand "just" a petty crime).
As for me, I've never taken any drug like LSD, shrooms, nor even marijuana. I'm also not smoking cigarettes, although I smoke hookah with friends from time to time and of course as much people I like a bottle of cold beer or good glass of wine.

[flux00]

I'd really appreciate it if everyone understood the complexity of the issue.

Any drug affects each individual differently, even at different times. I know people across the intellectual spectrum that do any sort of drug. Saying a drug will affect you in some way is such a dramatic simplification, it's disgusting. We have an incredibly primitive understanding of the human brain, much less the body as a whole. Don't let trendy 'left-side, right-side' bullshit make you think otherwise.

Everything is a drug, and if you really pay attention as to how things affect you, you'll understand this. And no, complete sobriety does not make everyone as happy as possible. I am happier, more sociable, and more productive by smoking regularly.

Is the law wrong? Look into the historical reasons for society's view of pot. Look into the sociological impacts legalization has had in other countries. Read carl sagan's writings on weed.